Associated Baptist Press has apparently taken a liking to Miguel De La Torre (the fella who called Jesus a racist). Here's his latest, a diatribe against "biblical literalists" (but actually more evidence of his rejection of revealed truth).
Opinion: A pop quiz for biblical literalists by Miguel De La Torre
http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4066&Itemid=9
One replied in the comment thread: "Miguel De La Torre has deconstructed a neat little straw man His piece is cute and crafty, nothing more. It is completely void of intellectual merit. He has extrapolated the literalist hermaneutic to the absurd, which is neither fair nor representative of the literalist viewpoint.A literalist interpretation of Scripture is simply the normal or common understanding of the intended meaning as opposed to a hidden, allegorical, or mystical meaning."
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De la Torre again
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7 posts • Page 1 of 1
De la Torre again
by Rlvaughn on 2009 May 11 Mon 4:26 pm
- Rlvaughn
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Re: De la Torre again
by Mark Osgatharp on 2009 May 11 Mon 6:22 pm
Brother Vaughn,
Mr. De La Torre's slobber is typical of the anti-Christ/modernist heresy which dominated Protestant "theological education" for most of the 20th century. ABP is a mouthpiece for the Protestant "Baptist" left. In reality, they are no more Baptist than my dog. In fact, they are just the sort of dogs against which Paul warned when he said,
By the way, this class of phony "Baptists" still have control of the "Baptist Standard" of Texas (if you will notice, the "Baptist Standard" online format, as well as the "Word and Way" of Missouri and "Religious Herald" of Virginia, are copies of ABP).
What galls me most about this is the fact that some of our own people still think that the only difference between us and the Southern Baptists is "the way we do mission work." The reality is, at least as early as the 1960s the Southern Baptist Convention was up to its eyeballs in out and out anti-Christ apostasy. And though there has been an honest effort on the part of some Southern Baptists to purge this leaven, anyone who says that the modernists all just went away are either monumentally dishonest or criminally naive. And even if they did go away, their legacy has left deep gaping wounds that will never be healed. Yeah, as Isaiah lamented,
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
Mr. De La Torre's slobber is typical of the anti-Christ/modernist heresy which dominated Protestant "theological education" for most of the 20th century. ABP is a mouthpiece for the Protestant "Baptist" left. In reality, they are no more Baptist than my dog. In fact, they are just the sort of dogs against which Paul warned when he said,
Paul wrote:Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
By the way, this class of phony "Baptists" still have control of the "Baptist Standard" of Texas (if you will notice, the "Baptist Standard" online format, as well as the "Word and Way" of Missouri and "Religious Herald" of Virginia, are copies of ABP).
What galls me most about this is the fact that some of our own people still think that the only difference between us and the Southern Baptists is "the way we do mission work." The reality is, at least as early as the 1960s the Southern Baptist Convention was up to its eyeballs in out and out anti-Christ apostasy. And though there has been an honest effort on the part of some Southern Baptists to purge this leaven, anyone who says that the modernists all just went away are either monumentally dishonest or criminally naive. And even if they did go away, their legacy has left deep gaping wounds that will never be healed. Yeah, as Isaiah lamented,
Isaiah wrote:Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure.
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
- Mark Osgatharp
- Posts: 520
- Joined: 2008 Feb 06 Wed 9:45 pm
Re: De la Torre again
by revcathari on 2009 May 22 Fri 10:51 am
De La Torre spouts the same garbage in his book "Lily Among the Thorns." Listen how me must not only bring the word of God and God's messengers into doubt but he also affirms the atheists' complaints that God had Israel commit genocide and ethnic cleansing (things of which man is guilty, not God):
In reality, De La Torre is doing precisely what he accuses others of doing: reading into Scripture his own modernistic, politically correct bias in order to arrive at a particular interpretation that actually undermines the truth.
revcathari
Based on how the Bible is read, we arrive at a truth concerning sex—a truth that serves as the basis for establishing doctrine, which in turn creates church traditions. Once we articulate this truth, we derive moral actions in accordance with said truth. But what happens if the determined truth is based on an erroneous sexist premise? Usually, men who are accustomed to the privileges bestowed upon them by patriarchy read their sexist biases into the text. Likewise, the original writers of the text—rooted in social customs, traditions, and laws of their time—recounted God’s revelation to humanity from the patriarchial framework in which they were embedded. The truth is thus tainted. What is determined to be the revelatory biblical mandate merges with the customs of the dominant male-centric culture. All too often we assume the prevalent existing patriarchy of the original text writers’ times as God’s will, or we read into the biblical text the prevalent sexism of our own culture, finding verses that justify the prevailing social power structures…Passages that foster either sexism or patriarchy must be reinterpreted from the perspective of those marginalized by the text, or rejected in the same way we Christians today reject genocide (Joshua 1:10-18), and ethnic cleansing (Deuteronomy 19:1; 31:30-5). (pp. 3-4)
In reality, De La Torre is doing precisely what he accuses others of doing: reading into Scripture his own modernistic, politically correct bias in order to arrive at a particular interpretation that actually undermines the truth.
revcathari
- revcathari
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Re: De la Torre again
by Mark Osgatharp on 2009 May 22 Fri 5:22 pm
Brother Ray,
You said,
The athiests are right, God did command the Jews, without apology, to exercise ethnic cleansing against certain people groups. Ultimately, God will damn the whole Adamic race and establish the seed of Christ in it's place. As Paul said,
We will never succeed in combating the sort of modernism advanced by Mr. De la Torre until we cease apologizing for God, put Him back on the throne and quit watering down His fierce wrath and deep contempt for the wicked.
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
You said,
Ray Valesquez wrote:Listen how me must not only bring the word of God and God's messengers into doubt but he also affirms the atheists' complaints that God had Israel commit genocide and ethnic cleansing (things of which man is guilty, not God).
The athiests are right, God did command the Jews, without apology, to exercise ethnic cleansing against certain people groups. Ultimately, God will damn the whole Adamic race and establish the seed of Christ in it's place. As Paul said,
Paul wrote:As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
We will never succeed in combating the sort of modernism advanced by Mr. De la Torre until we cease apologizing for God, put Him back on the throne and quit watering down His fierce wrath and deep contempt for the wicked.
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
- Mark Osgatharp
- Posts: 520
- Joined: 2008 Feb 06 Wed 9:45 pm
Re: De la Torre again
by revcathari on 2009 Jun 10 Wed 10:36 pm
Mark Osgatharp wrote:The athiests are right, God did command the Jews, without apology, to exercise ethnic cleansing against certain people groups. Ultimately, God will damn the whole Adamic race and establish the seed of Christ in it's place.
bro. Mark,
We cannot construe what God commanded the Israelites to do as either genocide or ethnic cleansing, because these words imply that God had them destroyed simply on account of their race or ethnic groupings as opposed to the real reason, which was that they were utterly corrupt societies and God intended to displace them on account of it.
When what Israel did to the nations in the land of Canaan is viewed in this light, the atheists are proven to be simply ignorant of God and his reasons for doing what he does. God does not act arbitrarily, as they would have us to believe. On the contrary, he does what he does for good reason and is justified in doing it, because the recipients of his wrath are worthy of his judgment. This could not be said if God destroyed them simply on account of their race or ethnicity.
Furthermore, to prove that God is not a respecter of persons, i.e. that neither race nor ethnicity has anything to do with his wrath and judgment, God often destroyed and punished his own people when they also went too far in sin. And it is precisely for the same reason that he will, as you said, damn the whole Adamic race and supplant it with Christ's seed.
revcathari
- revcathari
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Re: De la Torre again
by Mark Osgatharp on 2009 Jun 11 Thu 8:43 pm
Brother Velasquez,
I agree with everything you have said in principle and perhaps I should not have used the terms "ethnic cleansing" or "genocide" because of how they might be misconstrued (though I think those terms rightly understood correctly express what God commanded the Jews to do to certain groups).
My only point is that God did single out certain cultures, nations or ethnic groups for extermination because they had, embedded in their culture a deep antagonism to God and His people as well as an attachment to certain exceptionally wicked practices, such as infant sacrifice among the Ammonites.
One of the biggest lies of modernism is that the only difference between ethnic groups is physical characteristics. Though physical characteristics often parallel culture, the true identity of a culture is in its moral standards and its attitude toward God. For example, it is certain that God does not judge a man because he is Arabic. But it is just as certain that the Arabic culture is steeped in hatred for God and His people because of their centuries long attachment to the Islamic religion and a hatred of the Jews that dates all the way back to days of Jacob.
The modernist religious denominations deny that God would in any wise single out any group of people for judgment - yeah, they essentially deny the judgment of God altogether. And yet we read such things as this in the Scripture:
Call that by whatever terminology you wish, the fact remains that God had a particular despite for Edom because they had a particular despite for Him and His people. This stands as a warning to all who would rise up against God and who would oppose His gospel.
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
I agree with everything you have said in principle and perhaps I should not have used the terms "ethnic cleansing" or "genocide" because of how they might be misconstrued (though I think those terms rightly understood correctly express what God commanded the Jews to do to certain groups).
My only point is that God did single out certain cultures, nations or ethnic groups for extermination because they had, embedded in their culture a deep antagonism to God and His people as well as an attachment to certain exceptionally wicked practices, such as infant sacrifice among the Ammonites.
One of the biggest lies of modernism is that the only difference between ethnic groups is physical characteristics. Though physical characteristics often parallel culture, the true identity of a culture is in its moral standards and its attitude toward God. For example, it is certain that God does not judge a man because he is Arabic. But it is just as certain that the Arabic culture is steeped in hatred for God and His people because of their centuries long attachment to the Islamic religion and a hatred of the Jews that dates all the way back to days of Jacob.
The modernist religious denominations deny that God would in any wise single out any group of people for judgment - yeah, they essentially deny the judgment of God altogether. And yet we read such things as this in the Scripture:
Malachi wrote:Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
Call that by whatever terminology you wish, the fact remains that God had a particular despite for Edom because they had a particular despite for Him and His people. This stands as a warning to all who would rise up against God and who would oppose His gospel.
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
- Mark Osgatharp
- Posts: 520
- Joined: 2008 Feb 06 Wed 9:45 pm
Re: De la Torre again
by Mark Osgatharp on 2009 Jun 11 Thu 8:47 pm
Mark Osgatharp wrote:Brother Velasquez,
I agree with everything you have said in principle and perhaps I should not have used the terms "ethnic cleansing" or "genocide" because of how they might be misconstrued (though I think those terms rightly understood correctly express what God commanded the Jews to do to certain groups).
My only point is that God did single out certain cultures, nations or ethnic groups for extermination because they had, embedded in their culture, a deep antagonism to God and His people as well as an attachment to certain exceptionally wicked practices, such as infant sacrifice among the Ammonites.
One of the biggest lies of modernism is that the only difference between ethnic groups is physical characteristics. Though physical characteristics often parallel culture, the true identity of a culture is in its moral standards and its attitude toward God. For example, it is certain that God does not judge a man because he is Arabic. But it is just as certain that the Arabic culture is steeped in hatred for God and His people because of their centuries long attachment to the Islamic religion and a hatred of the Jews that dates all the way back to days of Jacob.
The modernist religious denominations deny that God would in any wise single out any group of people for judgment - yeah, they essentially deny the judgment of God altogether. And yet we read such things as this in the Scripture:Malachi wrote:Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
Call that by whatever terminology you wish, the fact remains that God had a particular despite for Edom because they had a particular despite for Him and His people. This stands as a warning to all who would rise up against God and who would oppose His gospel.
Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas
- Mark Osgatharp
- Posts: 520
- Joined: 2008 Feb 06 Wed 9:45 pm
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