Landmark Baptist

The Apostle Paul prayed for his good friend Philemon:

Philemon 1:6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

Paul draws particular attention to Philemon’s need to know specifically and accurately every single good thing that was in him in Christ Jesus. Such a list would be lengthy indeed, so the following is far from exhaustive:

Spiritual life itself is in Christ Jesus and nowhere else: 2 Timothy 1:1 “Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,”

The redemption that secures our free justification by grace is in Christ Jesus and nowhere else: Romans 3:24 “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:”

The freedom from condemnation is promised to those who are in Christ: Romans 8:1 “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

The operational law of the Spirit that frees us from the power of sin and death is in Christ Jesus: Romans 8:2 “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”

The promise of eternal security of the believer is secured by the love of God in Christ Jesus: Romans 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Because God has placed us in Christ Jesus, He becomes to us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption: 1 Corinthians 1:30 “But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:”

We are heirs of God because we are one in Christ Jesus: Galatians 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We become a new creation in Christ: Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


The blood of Jesus makes those who are in Christ to be no more strangers and foreigners who were without Christ, without God, and without hope: Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

We are a participant in God’s eternal purpose of grace in Christ Jesus: 2 Timothy 1:9 “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,”

Like Philemon, we all need to reflect on the glorious “good things” that are in us because we are in Christ. In light of these passages, I continue to struggle to understand the idea that a person can be saved and eternally secure in that salvation even though they are not in Christ – which is a necessary conclusion if one indeed must be “in Jesus and His church” to be in Christ.

Brother Hamlin,

I can't speak for those - if there are actually any who do - believe that one must be in church to be in Christ. I believe that any man who believes in Christ is eternally secure in Christ and that nothing can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus the Lord.

Having said that, it is obvious that you make a great mistake by asserting that because something is said to be "in Christ" that it is therefore the possession of every believer. For example, you quote this passage from Romans:

Paul wrote:There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The "no condemnation" of this passage is qualified by "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit". When a believer walks after the flesh there is condemnation on Him - not the eternal condemnation of hell fire but the chastisement of the Lord. Now consider also this statement of Paul:

Paul wrote:But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

There can be no doubt that this passage is talking about material needs and it says that God supplies them by Christ. If we apply your faulty method of interpretation to the passage, we would conclude that if a man is born again God will automatically give him all the material things he needs. But we know such is not the case for Paul said to the Thessalonian church,

Paul wrote:If any man would not work neither should he eat.

Here are more passages which speak of things that are said to be in Christ which cannot possibly be interpreted to apply to each an every believer without exception by virtue only of the new birth:

Paul wrote:Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus.

Salute Apelles approved in Christ.

For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him.

Am I am not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things:

Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

And say to Archippus, Take heed to the ministry which thou hast received in the Lord, that thou fulfil it.

For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.

And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you,

I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.

Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Salute thee Epaphras, my fellowprisoner in Christ Jesus;

And,

Peter wrote:Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

And,

Jesus wrote:I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas

Brother Osgatharp,

I have produced several quotes from Rick Howard's writings on the Alethian Landmark website which seem to assert that to be in Christ one must be in the church. The statement that one must be "in Jesus and His church" to be in Christ came from a discussion with Dr. W.A. Dillard on this very forum, although with all the reorganization I don't have a clue where any of it is anymore. I continue to be curious as to how a person can be saved and eternally secure in that salvation who isn't in Christ Jesus.

Had I said that every passage in the bible that uses the phrase "in Christ" or "in the Lord" must equally apply to every believer then you might have something to argue against. I didn't say that. What I do say is exactly what Paul said to Philemon, that we all need to know particularly every good thing that is in us in Christ. I said the list is long, and it is. You take exception to the idea that Romans 8:1 applies to every believer, but when we put it in its context the meaning is very clear:

Romans 8:1-2 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The disputed phrase, "Who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit" in vs. 1 really does nothing to alter the meaning of the passage as long as vs. 2 is read with it. The reason there is no condemnation is because the law of the Spirit of life that is in Christ has made me free from the law of sin and death – that is the condemnation. As Jesus Himself said:

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The chastening of God that every son, faithful or unfaithful, receives from Him does not constitute condemnation because Jesus says that when we believe on Him we shall not-- shall not -- come into it. I take His word over yours, and therefore conclude that Romans 8:1 presents a contrast between those who are saved who walk after the Spirit and those who are lost who are walking after the flesh. He goes on to make that very clear in his discussion:

Romans 8:8-9 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I have seen numerous efforts made over the years to make Romans 8 a discussion exclusively applying to “church saints”. I don’t buy it and the text won’t support it.

Of all the passages I presented you only take exception to Romans 8:1, which seems to indicate that even you accept that the rest of them apply to everyone who is in Christ Jesus. If so, then we have a lot to agree on.

Rich

Mark Osgatharp wrote:

Paul wrote:There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The "no condemnation" of this passage is qualified by "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit".

"I'm sorry, but you are incorrect..."

The phrase "no condemnation" is not qualified by anything.

I do believe it would be valid to say that the phrase "which are in Christ Jesus" qualifies "them"...

The phrase "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" is not a qualifier. It is "an extended description" of who "them which are in Christ Jesus" are.

It is not saying, "There is therefore now no condemnation to [only] those which are in Christ Jesus and who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." -- it is saying "There is therefore now no condemnation to" - "them" - "which are in Christ Jesus" - "who" - "walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." --- Or, in other words, just simply and exactly what is says...

So then:

There is therefore now no condemnation to 'them' [who are those] 'which are in Christ Jesus' [which are those] 'who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit'.

There is no 'only' in this verse of scripture... However, there is an 'all' ("to [all] them")...

I would agree Bro. Gary.

Gary Allbritton wrote:The phrase "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" is not a qualifier. It is "an extended description" of who "them which are in Christ Jesus" are.

Brother Allbritton, would you clarify? If it is a description of them which are in Christ Jesus, are you then saying that all them which are in Christ Jesus walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit?

Thanks.

Rlvaughn wrote:

Gary Allbritton wrote:The phrase "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" is not a qualifier. It is "an extended description" of who "them which are in Christ Jesus" are.

Brother Allbritton, would you clarify? If it is a description of them which are in Christ Jesus, are you then saying that all them which are in Christ Jesus walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit?

In the context of scripture - yes - absolutely - "by definition" -- that is, I believe the context and grammar define it.

It is not saying that those "which are in Christ Jesus" are defined as those "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" -- it is saying that those "which are in Christ Jesus" do "walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" ---- "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" is a characteristic of - not a definition for - "them which are in Christ Jesus"...

There is a difference between living in the Spirit and walking after the Spirit. Paul made that distinction in Galatians 5:25.

Brother Melton,

You said,

Jonathan Melton wrote:There is a difference between living in the Spirit and walking after the Spirit. Paul made that distinction in Galatians 5:25.

That is a very important observation and one that if it had not been overlooked by so many people could have prevented multitudes from falling into the "losing eternal life" heresy.

In Romans chapter 8 Paul is talking about walking in the Spirit and he clearly teaches that there is condemnation - which simply means judgment - on us when we walk in the flesh. It is also written in James,

James wrote:Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned. Behold, the judge standeth at the door.

Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas