Welcome
Welcome to the Landmark Baptist Discussion Board.

You are currently viewing the board as a guest, which gives you limited forum access and reduced feature capabilities. Joining the community will permit you to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, create polls, upload content, and access many other special features.

Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free. So please, join our community today!

A Catholics Claim

The systematic defense of the Christian Faith.
Forum rules
:
: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." ~ Galatians 5:22-23
:
: Official Terms-of-Use, Terms-of-Membership, Rules, and Guidelines may be found here.

A Catholics Claim

Postby cbut1 on 2008 Dec 18 Thu 11:19 am

This is an article from an aquaintence I have spoken with before he is a Catholic and has written a lengthy article on losing ones salvation. I thought that this would be enjoyable for us to go through and pick apart and or perhaps write a counterpoint to his article.

http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/lose.html

By Matt1618


Here I will give a list of New Testament Scriptures that show that if one is in God’s grace, one can do things that will separate one from God. I am not doing any extensive commentary, done in other articles on this issue, but merely a comment on why I chose these verses. This is not to say that believers will not be saved, but just that one must endure in that belief, and act according to that belief in order to inherit the kingdom of heaven. We know that we will not be cast out by Jesus (John 6:37), but we have the option of casting Him out of our lives by our actions. We know that nothing exterior to us can separate us from God (Rom. 8:38-39), but our own interior actions, and bad responses to those things exterior, can do so.

Now, here I am leaving out some passages that indirectly show that one can lose salvation. For example I will not give Matthew 25:31-46, James 2:14-26, Romans 2:6-13, which show that works are necessary for salvation. That is a whole other debate. I will not quote Scriptures that bring the general condemnation of unbelievers because that does not necessarily show that those constitute believers who fell or can fall away. I will concentrate on teachings that we know are directed towards Christian readers who already believe. Or at least when those receiving those teachings, include followers of Christ. For example Jesus teaches disciples as well as crowds on the Sermon on the Mount, that teaching would apply. Also for example, the Pauline and Johannine epistles are written specifically to Christians and are meant for Christians. I will not focus on when they are speaking about unbelievers, but when speaking to believers. I will not claim this is an exhaustive list, and have left out some verses that others use to say that one can lose salvation.

I believe the multitude of Scriptures shown here, show that one can lose salvation, but I will give these verses with very little comment.

26 of the 27 New Testament books are cited here. I will cite the books in the normal order of the New Testament books. I am using the Revised Standard Version of the Bible. Since this is very long, I have it divided into three sections. First, I have the gospels & the Acts of the Apostles. Next, Paul’s writings (I have Hebrews as well, it is not settled that he did write Hebrews, but that is another issue, and it is in-between Titus & James). Finally, James through Revelation. That is if you don’t have the time to go through all these numerous verses, you can get to specific sections and books quicker.
Change a mans mind against his will, he is of the same mind still. ----

Benjamin Franklin.
cbut1
 
Posts: 316
Joined: 2008 Mar 07 Fri 8:19 am
Location: California
Highscores: 1

Re: A Catholics Claim

Postby calvaryyouth on 2009 Apr 04 Sat 10:45 am

The article is extremely long, so I'll just mention the scriptures, and then why he got each one SO wrong. I suppose I could sum it ALL up in "out of context" and "wrong Bible version," but instead I'll give the truth of each verse.

Matthew 5:20-22, Obviously referring to lost men. Men who hate their brother are "in danger" of hell fire, not "liable" to it.
Matthew 5:29-30, If anything keeps you from salvation, get rid of it.
Matthew 6:13-15, Forgiveness - letting one go free, not sending to hell.
Matthew 10:28, This doesn't even make sense.
Matthew 12:32, Blasphemy is speaking against or acting against the Spirit. The Spirit convicts towards salvation. The unforgivable sin, is acting out against the salvation the Spirit speaks of.
Matthew 13:20-21, Deals with no eternal aspect whatsoever.
Matthew 18:8-9, Same as Matthew 5:20-22
Matthew 18:28-35, Never derive doctrine from parables.
Matthew 24:44-51, Same.
Matthew 25:14-15, 19, 24-30, Same.

MARK
Mark 4:16-18, Same
Mark 9:42-48, Wrong Bible version. Better to be saved than lost and teach children so.
Mark 11:25, Not dealing with eternity.
Mark 13:20-23, Tribulation and anti-christ - mark of beast.

LUKE
Luke 8:13, Parable.
Luke 12:42-46, Eternity not in reference. Parable.

JOHN
John 6:60-71, Judas was lost.
John 12:44-48, His word are of salvation.

and so on, and so forth. Every scripture is out of context. I'm tired of critiquing for now. Maybe someone else can pick up where I left off.
calvaryyouth
 
Posts: 56
Joined: 2009 Apr 03 Fri 8:08 am


Return to Apologetics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests